Are Believers or Unbelievers Saved?

The answer to this question depends on whether you follow the mainstream evangelical church (MEC) or the Bible.

The MEC teaches that a person is saved only if they believe the gospel, repent of their sins, and accept Jesus as their Saviour (or some similar process). 
In other words, salvation follows personal belief - a person is not saved until they become a believer and act upon that belief.
Accordingly, salvation is exclusively for believers.

The first Bible verse I encountered that created doubt for me about the MEC position was written by Paul to his apprentice Timothy.

This is why we labor and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Savior of all people, and especially of those who believe. 
[1 Timothy 4 : 10  NIV]

True, believers are special because they understand and appreciate God's truth and live in peace and positive hope about their future. 
Nevertheless, the Bible says that salvation is clearly for all people, believers and unbelievers.

Equally, when writing to believers in the Roman province of Asia, John tells them (speaking of Jesus Christ, the Righteous One):

He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
[1 John 2 : 2  NIV]

The MEC agrees that Jesus died for the sins of the whole world, but then claims this sacrifice is just the starting point, saying that salvation is now only possible or available for all. 
To complete the salvation process, a person needs to become a believer thus taking advantage of salvation's availability.

Again, Jesus didn't wait for people to become believers to save them, he died for sinners, unbelievers.

When we were unable to help ourselves [still helpless/weak], at the right [or appointed] time, Christ died for us sinners [the ungodly/wicked].
[Romans 5 : 6 EXB]

Clearly, Jesus saved unbelievers, not believers as is usually thought and taught.
Indeed, Jesus Christ never saved (died for) a believer.
Believers came into existence only after Jesus had completed His salvation mission and they became aware of it.

So there is hope for everyone as we all start out as unbelievers.
Isn't that interesting? 
The only qualification needed for a person to be saved is to be an unbeliever. 

Subsequently, at some point of God's choosing, each person will be "called", given faith to believe the good news about what Jesus accomplished for mankind on the cross ...

For just as all people die because of their union with Adam, in the same way all will be raised to life because of their union with Christ. 
But each one will be raised in proper order: Christ, first of all; then, at the time of his coming, those who belong to him. 
[1 Corinthians 15 : 22, 23  GNT]

and be indwelt by the Holy Spirit ...

The Spirit of God, who raised Jesus from the dead, lives in you. And just as God raised Christ Jesus from the dead, he will give life to your mortal bodies by this same Spirit living within you.
[Romans 8 : 11 NLT]

and be equipped to become an active participant in God's kingdom.

For it is God who is producing in you both the desire and the ability to do what pleases him.
[Philippians 2 : 13  ISV]

Believers, who have already been called, given faith and responsibilities in the kingdom, live in peace and in appreciation of their future hope.
For unbelievers, their time must come, for Jesus has promised ...

"When I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw everyone to me.”
[John 12 : 32 GNT]

Blessings, Barry
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Other published Writings at https://www.ibtechservices.com.au

Was Jesus Successful?

I believe Colossians 1: 16 - 20.

The Son is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
For in him all things were created: things in heaven and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or powers or rulers or authorities; all things have been created through him and for him.
... For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in him, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in heaven, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross. (NIV)

Because I believe this, I don't believe the usual message of the Christian religion.
The usual Christian message is that God's plan for His Son to die for the sin of the world has failed and will continue to fail. 
Apparently, it is understood that the sin of unbelief was not covered by Jesus' death on the cross.
Man's so-called free will, which allows man to not believe the gospel message, conquers God's will and intention to save (reconcile) the whole world.

Personally, I find it blasphemy to believe that evil (sin of any kind) will triumph over the death of the risen Christ.

In any case, the success of God's plan to save the world does not depend on the faith or belief of mankind. It depends on the faith of Jesus in trusting and obeying his Father, so dying on the cross for all of humanity's sin.

He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
[1 John 2 : 2  NIV]

You really can't get too far off course if you stick to the Bible!
Blessings, Barry
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Other published Writings at https://www.ibtechservices.com.au

The Salvation Journey

Many people believe salvation is the result of the freewill choice of each individual as they repent of their sins and accept Jesus into their hearts - it is the responsibility of each individual to obtain their own salvation if/when given the opportunity.
I don't see how that fits what I see in the Bible. For me ...

1. Salvation is the purpose and provision of God

For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.
[1 Timothy 4 : 10  ESV]

which was transacted by Jesus about 2000 years ago

He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
[1 John 2 : 2  NIV]

All this is from God, who reconciled us to himself through Christ and gave us the ministry of reconciliation: that God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting people's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. 
[2 Corinthians 5 : 18, 19  NIV]

Everyone has already been saved - whether they know it or not, believe it of not.
This is a universal, unalterable fact - God's sovereign decision faithfully put into effect by His Son, Jesus Christ.

2. All people will eventually hear this gospel, the good news described in step 1.
Maybe once or many times, in this lifetime or the next.
(Millions may never hear the gospel in their time on this planet, but will do so eventually, maybe at the Great White Throne judgement.)

Jesus said, " ... And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.
[John 12 : 30 ... 32  NIV]

God did what he had purposed, and made known to us the secret plan he had already decided to complete by means of Christ. 
This plan, which God will complete when the time is right, is to bring all creation together, everything in heaven and on earth, with Christ as head.
[Ephesians 1 : 9, 10  GNT]

3. After hearing the gospel, God gives faith to believe the truth of the message.

Consequently, faith comes from hearing the message, and the message is heard through the word about Christ. 
[Romans 10 : 17  NIV]

4. This awareness and appreciation of the good news creates change in the hearer which has two aspects: repentance - change from ignorance or rebellion in the heart, and conversion - change towards grateful submission to God in lifestyle.

We know that we have come to know him if we keep his commands. 
[1 John 2 : 3  NIV]

If you love me, you will keep my commandments. And I will ask the Father, and he will give you another Helper, that he may be with you forever; the Spirit of truth.
[John 14 : 15 - 17  UASV]

It is God who produces in you the desires and actions that please him.
[Philippians 2 : 13  GW]

It's a God plan through and through. We can take no credit for it, not even for any good things we might do after our conversion.

Oh, the depth of the riches and wisdom and knowledge of God! 
How unsearchable are his judgments and how inscrutable his ways! 
“For who has known the mind of the Lord, or who has been his counselor?” 
“Or who has given a gift to him that he might be repaid?” 
For from him and through him and to him are all things. 
To him be glory forever. Amen.
[Romans 11 :33 - 36  ESV]

Blessings, Barry 
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Other published Writings at https://www.ibtechservices.com.au

Which is Better - Calvinism or Arminianism?

I have sometimes been asked to choose between Calvinism and Armianism, on the assumption that Christian Universal Reconciliation is not a legitimate option.

Very briefly, the god of the Calvinists has the ability to save all mankind, but doesn't choose to, whereas the god of the Arminians wants to save all mankind, but does not have the power or ability to.

The real God, the God of the Bible, has the will, power and ability to save all mankind, and sent Jesus to be the Saviour of the world to make sure that happens. In the introduction to The Really Good News About God", I briefly describe Calvinism and Arminianism and show the short-comings of each.

There are some people who tell me these are the only two positions that can be held, so, Barry, which one do you hold?
Well, if you put it like that I would have to say I'm a Calvinist, but not a Calvinist of the common variety.

I believe God has the will and strength to save those he has chosen to save ... but I broaden that number to everyone (on the basis of solid Biblical evidence you will find in the book).

OK. I'll give you a sneak peek right now.

Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
(1 John 2 : 1b - 2 NIV)
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people. 
(Romans 5 : 18  NIV)

I have also discussed this position more thoroughly in a previous post "The Third View" published on June 6th, 2010.

Blessings, Barry

How Thick Is Your Bible ?

Over the years, I've spent many hours trying to build a belief system and a worldview that is consistent with the teachings of the Bible.
The Bible is the standard, so whenever I discover a conflict between my thinking and the Bible, I question my thinking.
For me, the Bible teaches truth, so any discrepancy is on my side and needs to be remedied.

As you know, I am now fellowshipping in a liberal church where most people don't seem to hold the Scriptures in as high a regard as I am used to. 
Even though readings from all parts of the Bible are listed in our lectionary for each week of the year, the Gospels are the books given the most attention.
And recently I attended a small home group that even pruned the Gospel of John from this list as well, leaving them with a very thin volume comprising just the books of Matthew, Mark and Luke.

These lovely people, whose fellowship, hearts and Christ-like ministry I am enjoying and applauding, have their reasons for relegating the other books of the Bible to "ancient sacred texts." 
I won't go into those reasons here, but I will mention the reason for the home group eliminating the Gospel of John.

This Gospel quotes Jesus as saying that He is the way, the truth and the life, and that no-one can come to the Father except through Him.
Considering that many in this group believe that all will get to God no matter what route they take or what religion they belong to, John's Gospel is considered to be restrictive, exclusive, and in conflict with their universal belief.
So, the offending Gospel has to go.

Being a Christian Universalist and having a high regard for Scripture, I don't see the conflict.
Jesus IS the way.  Absolutely true, as John proclaims.
God reconciled the world to Himself through Christ and is no longer counting anyone's sins against them.  [ 2 Cor 5 : 19 ]
So no-one could possibly come to the Father without Jesus having done that.  
Jesus IS the only way we get to the Father.
And absolutely everyone WILL get there because He did this for the whole world.  [ 1 John 2 : 2 ]

So no matter who you are, where you live, or what religion or political party or football team you follow, Jesus has determined your eternal future.
No need to throw out John - or Paul or anyone else for that matter.
We can keep the whole Bible and still guarantee everyone will get to God eventually.

Blessings, Barry.

That "Les Miserables" Day

I don't get to talk much with my regular church friends about God's plan to reconcile all of creation to himself by the end of the ages.
Although they have heard me quote the universal verses from the Bible, especially from Paul's writings, and don't deny them, their major stumbling point is the tradition of the church.
"How can you possibly be right when the whole church has taught the opposite for so many centuries?" they ask.
(I guess Martin Luther got the same question in his day.)

Majority opinion becomes the orthodox view, whether it's correct or not.
A view that then opposes orthodoxy, or even just questions it, is considered heresy, and the questioner a heretic.

However, on the same day I saw the Les Miserables movie, a conversation with my friends over a coffee touched on the subject of God's grace.  One of my friends reminded us of the common evangelical use of GRACE as an acronym for God's Riches At Christ's Expense.

As the conversation continued I quietly mentioned that I use GRACE as an acronym for a quite different expression.  Eventually someone realised there was a question floating around somewhere in the room just begging to be voiced, and asked for what expression was GRACE an acronym for me.

I was happy to tell them, that for me, GRACE stands for God Reconciles All Creation Eventually - the ultimate manifestation of God's Grace.

Everyone stopped talking, seemingly stunned.  One person even admitted he had recently read that idea somewhere in one of Paul's epistles. (1)
Wow! The gently dripping tap may be finally making an impression on the hard ground of tradition that surrounds it.

God's time for one of his saints in this group to see the tremendous truth of universal reconciliation may be approaching. 
God's timing is his alone to determine.
I (we) just need to be faithful ministers of his reconciliation message. (2)

Blessings Barry.

(1) For God was pleased to have all his fullness dwell in Christ, and through him to reconcile to himself all things, whether things on earth or things in the heavens, by making peace through his blood, shed on the cross. [Col 1 : 19 - 20]

(2) God was in Jesus Christ, reconciling the world to himself, not counting people's sins against them.  And the message of this reconciliation has been entrusted to us. [2 Cor 5 : 19]

The Paradox of Mainstream Christianity

The paradox of mainstream christianity is its view of God - the God of love, forgiveness, mercy and grace - whom it claims to represent.

It's interesting, no, downright embarrassing, to compare the Biblical view of God with the one portrayed by mainstream christianity.

Over the next few days, I'll give some examples of how this paradox works itself out.  I'll add them as comments to this post.

Here's the first to get the ball rolling ....

Jesus told us to love our enemies and do good to them. 
In this way, he said, we would be showing that we were children of God, who is equally kind to the ungrateful and wicked.
He then instructed us to be merciful, just as God is merciful.
[ Luke 6 : 27 - 36 ]

This is the Bible's picture of God as described by Jesus, the person most qualified to know his father's character and behaviour.

Why then does mainstream christianity teach that God will torment his enemies forever in a place called hell or in a lake of fire, if Jesus said God is the model of kindness and mercy we should follow?

Blessings, Barry

Another Abused Verse

There are so many verses in the Bible that are badly translated into English, poorly interpreted or used without any consideration being given to their context in order to bolster someone's previously-decided point of view.
Hebrews 9 : 27 is such a verse.

Just as the men are destined to die once, and after this a judgement,  [BSV]

Although this verse is usually quoted alone to make a point, notice that it is only the first part of a sentence crossing two verses that has the familiar "Just as ...... so ......" structure that we have run into several times before.
But apart from this small point, what is the verse usually claimed to be referring to?

The common interpretation of this verse goes something like this.....
    All people die once then immediately face judgement.
    The result of that judgement - saved or damned - is final and determines everyone's eternal destiny.
    End of story.
As you well know, there are many aspects of this standard interpretation that are not in harmony with other correctly translated Scriptures.

But, even worse, this common interpretation is totally inconsistent with its context.
Let's have a look at its context.
The book - is written to the Hebrews, to Hebrew Christians, explaining God's new covenant with Israel, and contrasting it with the Old.
The chapter - is discussing the work of Jesus as High Priest of the New Covenant, as compared to the work of the high priests of the Old Covenant.
The verse - is discussing what happens after the inevitable death of "the men."

Looking at this context, what "men" is the verse talking about?
    Clearly it is talking about the high priests of the Old Covenant.
And what judgement follows their death?
    Numbers 35 gives us Gentiles a clue to what these Hebrew Christians would have known instinctively.

Numbers 35 talks about the towns for the Levites (the priestly tribe) and the Cities of Refuge.
Cities of Refuge were for those who were guilty of manslaughter (killing someone by accident, rather than by deliberate intent) so they would not be put to death for their man-slaying.
Such people were to remain in these cities until the death of the high priest.
After his death, the man-slayer was judged to be free of any further detainment or payment for his man-slaying.
He was then restored to his original community.

Interesting - the judgement after the death of the high priest was a restoration or reconciliation!!!

To finish this post, look at the next bit of the sentence that stretches across to verse 28.

Just as the men (the high priests) are destined to die once, and after this a judgement (restoration or reconciliation),
so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; ......

Does this shed some fresh light on this "terrible" verse for you?
Don't let anyone throw you off course with the standard Gentile interpretation again.
And if God leads you to offer this "anyone" an alternative, maybe WITH HUMILITY AND GRACE, you could ask if they have considered the context of the verse.
(I'm still learning how to do this well.)

Blessings, Barry

Trustworthy Sayings

On my journey through Revelation (again), I lingered at chapter 21 verse 5 (again).
I'm a sucker for verses like this one.

He who was seated on the throne said, "I am making everything new!"  
Then he said, "Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true."

It's a bit like

This is a trustworthy saying that deserves full acceptance.  
That is why we labour and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Saviour of all people, and especially of those who believe.
[ 1 Tim 4 : 9 - 10 ]

What a pity more people don't believe God when he says things like this.
And especially when he tells us that these statements are trustworthy.

This situation begs a huge question for me.
Don't Christians trust God, even with his trustworthy sayings?

I think so many, and particularly Christian leaders, have a lot to answer for.
They disbelieve God.
They discredit God.
They discount God's love and sovereignty.
They diminish the significance and value of Jesus' death and resurrection.

I wonder what these leaders think of God's stated purpose to be the Saviour of the world and to have everyone bowing their knee and confessing the Lordship of his Son.

I've even found pastors who become angry when I suggest that God saving all people might even be a possibility.
Which is a bit like the anger shown by the early workers in the vineyard when they discovered the owner was more generous than they thought he ought to be. (Matthew 20)
Or the disgust displayed by the elder brother in the parable of the prodigal son. (Luke 15)

We've got a long way to go before we become Christ-like, haven't we?
Blessings, Barry

5 Good Questions

Mainstream Christians of the "eternal torment" variety often haven't thought very much about what they say they believe.
Just a few simple questions soon gets them to realise this.

In fact, I am beginning to use the following set to actually get some conversations started.

1.  What do you think is God's plan for mankind and the world?
2.  Do you think he will be successful?
3.  Do you think Satan is more powerful than God?
4.  Do you think our will is more powerful than God's?
5.  Whose sins did Jesus pay for?

Most church-goers, regardless of their stated "eternal torment" position, will be inclined to answer these questions in ways that are far more consistent with the universal reconciliation view than with their own.
But they're still reluctant to give up their original position.
Go figure.

Discussion, Bible verses, logic, don't work very often.
Truth just needs to be revealed.
I guess that's never changed.

Blessings, Barry

A Converted Bishop

Bishop Carlton Pearson is a charismatic Christian leader in the US with an interesting history, and perhaps a more interesting future.
As well as normal "bishop" duties, he's had over 30 years of national media exposure.
Below he tells of his discovery of universal reconciliation, which I thought was worth sharing with you.
Enjoy.

" ..... in the midst of all my work and my unmitigated commitment to the Lord Jesus Christ and my life’s dedication to the ministry of His great Gospel, I have come to a most liberating and encouraging realization, both through Scripture and personal revelation.

"This revelation was put best in words, while I was hosting a live national Christian television program and my guest was the great Missionary Evangelist, T.L. Osborn.

"In the course of this interview with one of the greatest soul winners of the 20th century, he blurts out a statement that burned into my spirit in a way no other single statement has, in my over 45 years as a born-again Christian.

"The statement was: 'The world is already saved, they just don’t know it!'

"According to my subsequent studies of Scriptures to verify this statement as a true and a most powerful and inspiring revelation, I had to face the fact that, not only does the world not know it, but, most of the Evangelical church doesn’t believe it, and therein lies the greatest deception the enemy has ever convinced the world of, second only to his success at deceiving Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. "

Pearson has now been rejected by mainstream Christian leadership and declared a modern-day heretic for questioning the traditional church doctrine that promotes a loving God who sentences billions of people to an eternal hell for not becoming Christians.

God has obviously got a different role for Bishop Pearson in the future than what we saw in his previous years of conventional and entertainment-style ministry.

Blessings, Barry

Another Bunch of Hypocrites

We have all heard many times the excuse for not coming to church as, "The church is full of hypocrites."  On hearing this, I would usually talk about our sinful weakness, even though we are saved, and the need for those in the church to be refined and matured towards God-likeness over time.

I still think this is true.  Yet, I think mainstream christianity has a lot to answer for nevertheless.

I have seen books written recently with titles like "How to Quit Church Without Quitting God", "So You Don't Want to go to Church Anymore",  "7 Biblical Truths You Won't Hear in Church", "I'm Fine with God ... It's Christians I Can't Stand", among others.  I have read several of these and have agreed with much that is in them.

It's interesting that the mainstream religion of the Old Covenant era was described in a similar fashion.  Isaiah reports that God accused Israel of being responsible for having his name constantly blasphemed. 
Ezekiel was just as damning.  "Therefore say to the house of Israel, 'This is what the Sovereign Lord says: It is not for your sake, O House of Israel, that I am going to do these things, but for the sake of my holy name, which you have profaned among the nations where you have gone.'"

Those familiar with the Bible are well aware of the ways in which Israel profaned God's name, but we are often blind to the ways we have done so.  We too, are guilty of the same hypocrisy they were.  We say one thing, and preach or act in a quite opposite way.

Mainstream christianity says that God loves us unconditionally, but then preaches that this is true only on the condition that we love him in return.
Mainstream christianity says that we are saved by grace alone, but then preaches that this is not true, we are required to take some action ourselves, and right now by the way.
Mainstream christianity says that God is the Saviour of all, but then preaches that most people will not be saved but will be tormented in hell forever.

What do not-yet-believers make of all of this?  How do they respond?  
Confused.  Frustrated.  Cynical.  Antagonistic.  Disinterested. 
I wonder why the mainstream churches are becoming empty and only the entertainment style churches are growing in the western world?  Any thinking outsider is more likely to respond with, "I'm fine with God... it's christians I can't stand," than join God's latest bunch of hypocrites.

Boy doesn't God take a risk in allowing humans to represent him?  Even when they are "his chosen" under the Old Covenant or "the saints" under the New.  It's pretty sobering to realise that the heathen are not accused of profaning God's name, only God's people.

I have been reluctant to expose this hypocrisy and share these Bible truths strongly in the past.  Why?
What would happen to the positions I hold, the respect of other christian leaders I enjoy or the close friendships I value?

I have my similarities with the first century followers of Jesus.
No-one would say anything publicly about Jesus at the Feast of Tabernacles celebrations for fear of the Jewish leaders, the leaders of the mainstream religion of the time. 
Joseph of Arimathea and Nicodemus buried Jesus' body secretly (probably at night) for fear of those same leaders.
On the evening of Jesus' resurrection, his disciples were meeting behind locked doors because of their fear of the Jewish leaders rather than proudly and publicly announcing the good news of Jesus being alive, having conquered death as he predicted he would.

So here I am with the good good news of God's unconditional love and extravagant grace that needs to be proudly and publicly announced and preached.  How am I to do this is my big question?

I have now retired and no longer hold any of those precious mainstream church positions.  Indeed, the more public I become about this, the more likely I am to remain retired. :-) The need to have the respect of other christian leaders is not as important as it was, and  friendships will surely sort themselves out as being close or not.

The proposed book will be the end result of the website that will be generated mainly from this blogsite.  The website and book will be widely advertised, even though the blog is only for friends.  That's as far as I have travelled with this question.  

Any suggestions?  Using the comments section under this post for brainstorming this over the next few months would be appreciated.  Barry.