Well, it depends on which salvation and whose faith we are referring to?
Let's sort out the salvation question first.
As you know, one of our theme texts is 1 Timothy 4 : 10, which sits under the search box beside every post on this BLOG.
We have placed our hope in the living God, who is the Saviour of all, and especially of those who believe. {GNB]
So all humanity will be saved eventually, but there is something special in store for believers.
Previous posts have explored the universality of the world's eventual salvation using texts such as ...
God made known to us the secret of his will according to his good pleasure, which he himself had previously decided, to be put into effect when the times reach their completion - to bring unity to all things in heaven and on earth under Christ. [Ephesians 1 : 9 - 10 BV]
After everything is under the power of God's Son, he will put himself under the power of God, who put everything under his Son's power. Then God will mean everything to everyone. [1 Cor 15 : 28 CEV]
However, not everyone will need to wait for the ages to be completed to receive their salvation. The "especiallies" are those who have become believers - have believed that Jesus died for the sins of the world - during their lifetime on earth, and will enjoy their salvation and inclusion in the Body of Christ during the remaining ages, which includes the Millennium and the New Heavens and Earth.
So there are two salvations - one for believers during the ages and continuing beyond them, and one for the remainder of humanity at the completion of the ages - another illustration of the first fruits and the main harvest in Hebrew agricultural terminology.
What about the faith question?
Long time readers of this BLOG will know that many of our popular English translations of the Bible have translation errors which have been used to mislead people regarding several aspects of God's plan for us.
The ownership of the faith needed for both the salvation of the main harvest and the first fruits is another victim of these errors.
Because of the age-old tradition in many Church circles that we are saved by making a decision for Christ or by inviting Jesus into our hearts or by some other initiative taken by us, most modern translators have read such a position into the texts.
In those translations, the Greek "faith OF Jesus" is translated as "faith IN Jesus". It was the faith or faithfulness of Jesus, Jesus Christ's faith in his Father's purpose for him, that took him to the cross to secure our salvation.
(I have a fuller discussion of this in the post "The Faithfulness of Jesus" published on May 2nd, 2017 for those interested.)
We had (then) and still have (now) absolutely no input into it. Jesus did it all! With no assistance from us everyone will eventually be reconciled to God without lifting a finger. Yes, Jesus was successful in dying on the cross for the sins of the world.
However, to be in the Body of Christ, to be among the first fruits, to have life during the ages, we need to believe in the finished work of Christ for mankind and to be available as a co-worker with Christ in His kingdom work.
We need to have faith in the finished work of Jesus.
And that faith is also a gift from God for those He has selected for that role during the ages.
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God [Ephesians 2 : 8 NIV]
Consequently, to be among the first fruits, to be in the Body of Christ, to be saved during the realm of time (the ages), to have age-ian life, we need to have received the faith to believe in the faithfulness of Jesus in dying for our sins.
So, is faith needed for salvation?
For the eventual salvation of the world, the faith of Jesus was needed.
For the prior salvation of those chosen to be in the Body of Christ, the faith to believe in the finished work of Jesus will be given.
(And when the last of these have been been born, and heard the gospel, and been given the faith to believe it, the Body of Christ will be complete and this current age will be completed.)
Blessings, Barry
I have sometimes been asked to choose between Calvinism and Armianism, on the assumption that Christian Universal Reconciliation is not a legitimate option.
Very briefly, the god of the Calvinists has the ability to save all mankind, but doesn't choose to, whereas the god of the Arminians wants to save all mankind, but does not have the power or ability to.
The real God, the God of the Bible, has the will, power and ability to save all mankind, and sent Jesus to be the Saviour of the world to make sure that happens. In the introduction to The Really Good News About God", I briefly describe Calvinism and Arminianism and show the short-comings of each.
There are some people who tell me these are the only two positions that can be held, so, Barry, which one do you hold?
Well, if you put it like that I would have to say I'm a Calvinist, but not a Calvinist of the common variety.
I believe God has the will and strength to save those he has chosen to save ... but I broaden that number to everyone (on the basis of solid Biblical evidence you will find in the book).
OK. I'll give you a sneak peek right now.
Jesus Christ, the Righteous One. He is the atoning sacrifice for our sins, and not only for ours but also for the sins of the whole world.
(1 John 2 : 1b - 2 NIV)
Consequently, just as one trespass resulted in condemnation for all people, so also one righteous act resulted in justification and life for all people.
(Romans 5 : 18 NIV)
I have also discussed this position more thoroughly in a previous post "The Third View" published on June 6th, 2010.
Blessings, Barry
I am often asked, "If everyone is going to be reconciled to God eventually, why bother with evangelism?"
Let me offer an answer within the context of God's sovereign choices.
God is the Designer, Creator and Ruler of the universe. As such, He made and makes all the decisions involved in its creation, maintenance and affairs.
Unless He chooses to delegate some decisions to us, he makes all the choices - and even the choice to delegate is His.
Here are some examples of God's choices.
God chose to create the heavens and the earth.
God chose to commence the human race with a man, Adam, made in his image, and a woman, Eve, made from that man.
God chose Noah, the ark-builder, to save 8 people from the global flood.
God chose Abraham to become the father of a new spiritual race.
God chose Jacob to be the father of God's special nation, called Israel.
God chose Joseph to save Israel from starvation.
God chose Moses to free Israel from Egypt.
God chose David to be the greatest of the kings of Israel.
God chose Solomon to build a most elaborately adorned temple in Jerusalem.
God chose Jesus to be the Saviour of the world and Jesus chose to draw all people to himself.
Those last choices involving Jesus were to guarantee that God's ultimate choice that all creation would spend eternity in unity and harmony with Himself would be achieved. (Ephesians 1 : 7 ff)
However, some of His creation are chosen earlier than others, and for a special purpose.
These early-chosen are given belief (faith) and are called believers, disciples, first fruits or the Body Of Christ.
And what do they believe?
According to St Paul, they believe the good news "that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures." (1 Corinthians 15 : 3 - 4)
And what is their special purpose?
The task of the Body of Christ is to announce this good news - the gospel - to the world: that God has reconciled the world to Himself. (2 Corinthians 5 : 18 - 19).
And what happens when they do?
Many people will hear this good news and those who have been chosen to join the Body of Christ, to become an early-believer, will be given belief (faith) and will join in this ministry (Acts 13 : 48}.
This process will continue until all those who have been chosen to be early believers have heard the gospel and been given faith.
At this point, the body of Christ will be complete and the events due to be unfolded at the consummation of the ages will commence - the salvation of Israel (Romans 11 : 25 ff) and the commencement of the millennium kingdom (Revelation 20 : 1 ff), for example.
So what is the purpose of evangelism, of announcing the gospel?
It is to complete the Body of Christ, those chosen before the creation of the world (Ephesians 1 : 3 ff) to show the incomparable riches of God's grace in the heavenly realms in the coming ages. (Ephesians 2 : 6 - 7)
We are blessed to have been chosen early, but we also have a major responsibility - to preach the gospel so that God can give faith to the not-yet members of the Body of Christ. (Romans 10 : 17). We usually call this activity or ministry evangelism.
Blessings, Barry
Several years ago, I posted "Jottings from John" on the blog, which included several verses that described God's inclusive and universal plan to save all his creation through the death and resurrection of his Son, Jesus Christ.
Today let's discuss John 3 : 36, a verse usually promoted to disprove this plan.
Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on them. [NIV]
As usual, I need to challenge the translation of the Greek "aionian" into the English "eternal" and replace "eternal life" by "life in the ages". I will also add "this" to help link the second reference to this life later in the verse.
So my adjusted NIV translation becomes ...
Whoever believes in the Son has life in the ages, but whoever rejects the Son will not see this life, for God's wrath remains on them. [BV]
which is not far from the Young's Literal Translation ...
He who is believing in the Son, has life age-during; and he who is not believing the Son, shall not see life, but the wrath of God does remain upon him. [YLT]
So we see that this verse is not referring to the eventual outcome of God's plan, with many of his creation lost forever, but to the kingdom stage where only those chosen to believe in the ages (during the realm of time) will be experiencing life, while the others not seeing life until the consummation of the ages.
And this conclusion is consistent with what John said earlier in Chapter 3 (verse 17) ...
For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. [NIV]
I am much more comfortable believing our God of love and mercy will fully achieve his purpose for the world than believing many of his creation will overturn his plans for them through their current unbelief.
Blessings, Barry
After publishing the last post, I received a private email asking the question above, and I promised its author that I would share some thoughts on it next.
So here we go.
Let's repeat our nutshell description of salvation from last time ...
Salvation is a journey of restoration that starts with re-gaining life and is completed when we return to being God's true image bearers, as was Jesus.
So salvation is a journey with a beginning and an end.
The beginning is being restored or resurrected to life.
This life is God's life, eternal life, which God breathes into us, his Holy Spirit.
It comes from knowing God, having God and Jesus revealed to us, and indwelling us.
Jesus said ...
"Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent." (John 17:3)
and
"No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him." (Matthew 11: 27)
In my opinion, once we know God, we can't "un-know" him.
We might disappoint him, or fail him, or even disown him (as did Peter during Jesus' lifetime on earth), but we can't subsequently say we don't know him.
Therefore we cannot lose eternal life, we cannot lose the beginning of the salvation journey once it has been given to us.
The end is Christ-likeness, being restored to the image of God.
So if this is the end, there is no time or opportunity remaining in which to lose anything.
Therefore we cannot lose Christ-likeness, we cannot lose the end of the journey after we have finally arrived there, as there is no "after".
So what about the (major) part of the journey - the bit between the beginning and end?
Can we lose that? Ummmmmm ...
That's a weird question, isn't it?
At times, we can lose our way, get side-tracked, take routes that are long and winding and dangerous; we can give up for a while, take extended siestas, etc. etc.
But eventually, we will respond to the nudging and corrections of the Holy Spirit within us, repent and get back on track again.
What makes me so sure?
Firstly, there are so many characters in the Bible whose lives demonstrate that this happens.
Take David for example.
The prophet Samuel told Saul that he was to be replaced as King of Israel by a man after God's own heart, referring to David.
And yet it was subsequent to his appointment as king that David committed adultery and arranged a cowardly murder before repenting and getting his life back on track and becoming a key person in Israel's history and in the earthly ancestry of Jesus Christ.
And, secondly, the Apostle Paul guarantees we will get to the end.
Hear him to the believers in Philippi ...
"being confident of this, that he who began a good work in you will carry it on to completion until the day of Christ Jesus." (Phil 1:6)
and to his apprentice Timothy ...
"That is why we labour and strive, because we have put our hope in the living God, who is the Saviour of all people, and especially of those who believe." (1 Tim 4:10)
If God is to be the Saviour of all people, surely that includes those who start that journey while on earth, regardless of what might happen during the rest of their lifetimes here.
So, can we lose our salvation?
We can't lose the beginning, we can't lose the end, and God guarantees the journey in between.
And to top it off, God is going to be the Saviour of all.
So no-one can lose their salvation, including those who haven't begun the journey yet.
Now it's my turn to ask a couple of questions.
1. What is so "especially" about the believers mentioned in 1 Timothy 4 : 10?
2. What do we lose (or miss out on) during those siestas and side-tracks?
Do we have some bloggers who would like to discuss these?
Blessings, Barry
Matthew 25 : 31 - 46 describes the Judgement of the Nations, which most commentators or theologians believe to be a description of the final judgement of mankind at the end of time to decide who will be saved or enter the kingdom.
I suspect this is not a correct interpretation for the following reasons .....
1. This is a judgement with consequences in the ages to come. If it happens at the end of time, there are no ages left for the consequences to be played out.
2. It is a judgement of nations or tribes, not individuals. The salvation of individuals is not involved, and, in any case, the salvation of individuals is not a matter of works or the offering of charity, but is a gift to all.
3. This story is the last piece of Jesus' answer to His disciples' questions that were asked at the beginning of chapter 24 involving the destruction of the temple, which occurred in AD 70 and before the generation to whom Jesus was speaking passed away (Matt 23 : 36 and 24 : 34).
4. It is a parallel with Matthew 16 : 27 - 28 (compare with Matt 25 : 31 - 33) in which Jesus assured his listeners that at least some of whom would personally see.
5. The nations referred to were probably the tribes of Israel, or the tribes of the land. Matt 24 : 30 calls them so, and back then historians like Josephus regularly referred to the nation of the Galileans, the nation of the Samaritans, etc. within the land of Israel.
Jesus told his disciples to "go and teach all nations" and I think He was understood to be referring to the ethnic groups within Israel or Judea because of their surprise when they eventually discovered Gentiles being saved in the mid and later chapters of Acts. (Acts 10 : 14 and 11 : 18.
It's also worth noting that Jesus told his disciples that they wouldn't have finished going through the cities of Israel before Jesus was to return (Matt10 : 23), thus expecting them to be spreading the gospel to Israel or Judea, and that Paul stated that the Gentiles being included in the gospel was a mystery prior to his revelation (Eph 3 : 6).
I therefore, as an uneducated bush theologian, prefer to view this judgement as one on the tribes or nations of Israel in AD70, and Jews being law-keepers, would be judged on how well they kept the law and offered charity to those who lived in the land with them.
That's where I'm up to, but I'm always learning.
Comments, as always, would be most welcome.
Blessings, Barry
Here is a topic that I think about a lot, and my thoughts seem to be at odds with the vast majority of Christian authors.
But what's new about that?
Most authors suggest that when people leave this planet (physically die) they remain asleep until a resurrection sometime in the future.
The "goodies" get resurrected to be given Life, and the "baddies" get resurrected to be given death. (Some resurrection that would be!)
But I find that view inconsistent with the view taught by Jesus and His followers, who say that Jesus came to give us Life right now.
Do we get that Life and then have it taken from us for the time between when we physically die and some future resurrection?
That doesn't seem very logical to me either.
I appreciate that several verses can be quoted to support the idea that when our physical bodies cease working and we depart this planet we are dead, real dead, or at least sound asleep, but they are all OT verses, statements made by poets (and others) expressing their understanding at that point.
Here are a couple......
Among the dead no one proclaims your name.
Who praises you from the grave? [Psalm 6 :5 NIV]
For the living know that they will die,
but the dead know nothing;
they have no further reward,
and even their name is forgotten.
Their love, their hate
and their jealousy have long since vanished;
never again will they have a part
in anything that happens under the sun. [Ecclesiastes 9 : 5 - 6 NIV]
Indeed, without further revelation from Jesus, we would not be in a position to say anything much different.
The physical evidence screams similar conclusions at us too.
But look at the new information Jesus reveals .....
“I am the resurrection and the life.
The one who believes in me will live, even though they die;
and whoever lives by believing in me will never die. " [John 11 : 25 - 26 NIV]
“Very truly I tell you, whoever hears my word and believes him who sent me has eternal life and will not be judged but has crossed over from death to life." [John 5 : 24 NIV]
John affirms Jesus' words with .....
I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life. [1 John 5 : 13 NIV]
Jesus goes even further than promising Life for His followers .....
"But in the account of the burning bush, even Moses showed that the dead rise, for he calls the Lord ‘the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.’
He is not the God of the dead, but of the living, for to him all are alive.” [Luke 20 : 37 - 38 NIV]
I appreciate that the theology of many old hymns sometimes doesn't follow Scripture too well, but I like the Christmas Carol "Hark the Herald Angels Sing," which has this verse .....
Hail the heaven-born Prince of Peace!
Hail the Son of Righteousness!
Light and life to all He brings
Risen with healing in His wings
Mild He lays His glory by
Born that man no more may die
Born to raise the sons of earth
Born to give them second birth
Hark! The herald angels sing
"Glory to the newborn King!"
Not too much about death there!
Anyway, what do you think happens to us when we leave this planet?
Would love to hear your thoughts.
Blessings, Barry
As most of you know, I am in a new (for me) Christian environment, so I spend much of the time listening and learning, and only occasionally asking a question or offering a comment.
And, as you would also know, being more of an observer than a leader in a Bible study setting is also very new to me. :-)
In a recent Bible study discussion on God and the possibility that He might, or might not, be involved in our personal lives, it was suggested that we must be rational when formulating our ideas about God and the ways He operates.
Being the observer that I have currently chosen to be, I allowed that suggestion to go without question or comment, and the discussion headed off in another direction.
I know you find that action (or inaction) on my part hard to believe, because you know how God has been involved in our lives over several decades in ways that are impossible to describe as rational.
But I will break my silence here.
The ways in which God has shifted us around the country, the miracles we have been privileged to see in our various adventures and ministries, and the way He has brought us through several family challenges, all point to a God who intervenes in lives in ways that refuse to be restricted by mankind's sense of rationality.
But let me generalise beyond my personal experience, so we can all address this question together.
God's grace is nowhere near rational.
Is it rational, can we really comprehend, that the Creator of this universe extends grace and mercy in such awesome measure as He has and does towards such a wayward and rebellious humanity?
Christ's resurrection is not rational - nor will ours be.
Is it rational that God's forgiveness is given to all without any performance or sacrifice on our behalf, but solely as a result of Christ's death and resurrection?
Christ's teaching is often not rational either.
For example, He tells us to .....
- forgive without limit - yet a rational mind would declare there are some things that are unforgivable, and some forgiven people will never change their offensive behaviour but seek to take advantage of us.
- be at peace with all - yet a rational mind would suggest that violence and evil will run rampant when surrounded by such a pacifist mindset.
- give unstintingly to the poor and needy - yet a rational mind would suggest that too much of that will only encourage some people not to work or even try to get a job.
- love our enemies and do good to them - yet a rational mind would such that such a response would encourage our enemy to totally destroy us.
For me, God is way beyond rational.
To create this enormous universe out of nothing is way beyond rational itself, let alone His dealings with it and those He created to populate and manage it.
"Rational" belongs to our limited, but logical, way of thinking - not to God's.
We can't confine God to the same size box most of humanity lives in.
Let's continue to look for the irrational, the supernatural, from the God who loves, forgives and sustains us without limit.
Blessings, Barry
Over the years, I've spent many hours trying to build a belief system and a worldview that is consistent with the teachings of the Bible.
The Bible is the standard, so whenever I discover a conflict between my thinking and the Bible, I question my thinking.
For me, the Bible teaches truth, so any discrepancy is on my side and needs to be remedied.
As you know, I am now fellowshipping in a liberal church where most people don't seem to hold the Scriptures in as high a regard as I am used to.
Even though readings from all parts of the Bible are listed in our lectionary for each week of the year, the Gospels are the books given the most attention.
And recently I attended a small home group that even pruned the Gospel of John from this list as well, leaving them with a very thin volume comprising just the books of Matthew, Mark and Luke.
These lovely people, whose fellowship, hearts and Christ-like ministry I am enjoying and applauding, have their reasons for relegating the other books of the Bible to "ancient sacred texts."
I won't go into those reasons here, but I will mention the reason for the home group eliminating the Gospel of John.
This Gospel quotes Jesus as saying that He is the way, the truth and the life, and that no-one can come to the Father except through Him.
Considering that many in this group believe that all will get to God no matter what route they take or what religion they belong to, John's Gospel is considered to be restrictive, exclusive, and in conflict with their universal belief.
So, the offending Gospel has to go.
Being a Christian Universalist and having a high regard for Scripture, I don't see the conflict.
Jesus IS the way. Absolutely true, as John proclaims.
God reconciled the world to Himself through Christ and is no longer counting anyone's sins against them. [ 2 Cor 5 : 19 ]
So no-one could possibly come to the Father without Jesus having done that.
Jesus IS the only way we get to the Father.
And absolutely everyone WILL get there because He did this for the whole world. [ 1 John 2 : 2 ]
So no matter who you are, where you live, or what religion or political party or football team you follow, Jesus has determined your eternal future.
No need to throw out John - or Paul or anyone else for that matter.
We can keep the whole Bible and still guarantee everyone will get to God eventually.
Blessings, Barry.
Recently I was asked, "Could you help me through the scriptures with how the unbelievers will be saved?"
I have replied and thought I would share the reply with you for your consideration and feedback.
I am happy to journey through the Scriptures with you on this, although I have to admit, before we commence, that there are not too many clues in the Scriptures about HOW God does most things, including the saving of unbelievers, whether they are on this planet, or have left it.
In many cases we know WHAT he does/did, but not HOW he does/did it.
For example,
We know that God implanted Jesus into the womb of the virgin Mary, but no clues are given about how he did it?
We know that Jesus turned water into wine, but no clues are given about how he did it?
We know that Jesus raised the widow's son in Nain from the dead, but no clues are given about how he did it?
You and I received faith in God and Jesus' sacrifice for our sins, but I, for one, cannot explain HOW we got that faith?
We, as the creatures, will never understand how he, the Creator, does such things, unless he tells us, or we make guesses from clues sprinkled through the Scriptures.
So let's start with the WHAT, about the fate of those who leave the planet as unbelievers, which is well documented in the Scriptures.
Col 1 : 19 - 20 : God will reconcile all things, in heaven and on earth, to himself. The same sacrifice of Jesus that got you and me reconciled to God will reconcile the rest of his creation.
2 Cor 5 : 19 : God is no longer counting our sins against us - any of us.
1 John 2 : 2 : Jesus paid for the sins of the whole world.
1 Tim 4 : 10 : God will save all people, not just believers.
Romans 11 : 32 : God will have mercy on us all.
Ephesians 1 : 10 : The end result will be the unity of all things in heaven and on earth under Christ.
HOW God will save unbelievers beyond their time on this planet is just as difficult to explain as the HOW he saves those who become believers while still here (people like us).
We are made aware of our sin, God's provision for dealing with it, and his being reconciled to us.
God gives us the faith to believe these truths, as Jesus draws us to himself.
We respond by confessing our faith in Jesus and his completed work for us.
We are reconciled to (at peace with) God, and express our appreciation and devotion.
This happens in a multitude of ways and circumstances and places - it's all God's doing and timing.
Those who leave this planet as unbelievers will be reconciled to God through a similar series of "steps" that converted unbelievers experience in their lifetime here - awareness, faith, drawing, confession, reconciliation, appreciation and devotion.
Here are my guesses .....
Because God is already reconciled to these unbelievers when they show up before him, they will discover that God holds nothing against them and does not need to be feared (because of the completed work of Jesus in dealing with their sin).
Believing these truths will be easy in the presence of Jesus; they will be drawn to him, confessing their conviction that he is their Lord and their God.
This will happen far too late for them to experience governing with Christ and previous believers in the kingdom age, but will carry them reconciled into eternity.
So what clues have I based these guesses on?
One way or the other God's plan (the WHAT above) must be fulfilled. [ Psalm 135 : 6 ; Isaiah 46 : 9 - 11 ]
Jesus came into the world to save it, not judge it, and he is the same yesterday and today and into the ages. [ John 12 : 47 ; Hebrews 13 : 8 ]
God is already reconciled to all of us and holds nothing against us. [ 2 Cor 5 : 19 ]
The experience of Thomas. [ John 20 : 24 - 29 ]
Jesus' parable of the prodigal son and how his loving and merciful father dealt with him. [ Luke 15 ]
Well, that's where I'm up to on this topic. What are your thoughts?
Blessings, Barry
Do you lovely bloggers have any thoughts on this? I'd love to explore this with you too.
Blessings, Barry
